MR. GOLER: Congressman Paul, I believe you are the only man on the stage who opposes the war in Iraq, who would bring the troops home as quickly as -- almost immediately, sir. Are you out of step with your party? Is your party out of step with the rest of the world? If either of those is the case, why are you seeking its nomination?
REP. PAUL: Well, I think the party has lost its way, because the conservative wing of the Republican Party always advocated a noninterventionist foreign policy.
Senator Robert Taft didn't even want to be in NATO. George Bush won the election in the year 2000 campaigning on a humble foreign policy -- no nation-building, no policing of the world. Republicans were elected to end the Korean War. The Republicans were elected to end the Vietnam War. There's a strong tradition of being anti-war in the Republican party. It is the constitutional position. It is the advice of the Founders to follow a non-interventionist foreign policy, stay out of entangling alliances, be friends with countries, negotiate and talk with them and trade with them.
Just think of the tremendous improvement -- relationships with Vietnam. We lost 60,000 men. We came home in defeat. Now we go over there and invest in Vietnam. So there's a lot of merit to the advice of the Founders and following the Constitution.
And my argument is that we shouldn't go to war so carelessly. (Bell rings.) When we do, the wars don't end.
MR. GOLER: Congressman, you don't think that changed with the 9/11 attacks, sir?
REP. PAUL: What changed?
MR. GOLER: The non-interventionist policies.
REP. PAUL: No. Non-intervention was a major contributing factor. Have you ever read the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there; we've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East -- I think Reagan was right.
We don't understand the irrationality of Middle Eastern politics. So right now we're building an embassy in Iraq that's bigger than the Vatican. We're building 14 permanent bases. What would we say here if China was doing this in our country or in the Gulf of Mexico? We would be objecting. We need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us. (Applause.)
MR. GOLER: Are you suggesting we invited the 9/11 attack, sir?
REP. PAUL: I'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it, and they are delighted that we're over there because Osama bin Laden has said, "I am glad you're over on our sand because we can target you so much easier." They have already now since that time -- (bell rings) -- have killed 3,400 of our men, and I don't think it was necessary.
MR. GIULIANI: Wendell, may I comment on that? That's really an extraordinary statement. That's an extraordinary statement, as someone who lived through the attack of September 11, that we invited the attack because we were attacking Iraq. I don't think I've heard that before, and I've heard some pretty absurd explanations for September 11th. (Applause, cheers.)
And I would ask the congressman to withdraw that comment and tell us that he didn't really mean that. (Applause.)
MR. GOLER: Congressman?
REP. PAUL: I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback. When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the shah, yes, there was blowback. A reaction to that was the taking of our hostages and that persists. And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk. If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem.
They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there. I mean, what would we think if we were -- if other foreign countries were doing that to us?
For those who don't recognize it, that was the now-infamous exchange between Republican presidential candidates Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) and former mayor of New York City Rudy Giuliani (Complete transcript begins here). Giuliani got a lot of great press out of it, as his position seems to be one held by a sizeable fraction of Americans. It's difficult for me to express how unfortunate I believe this to be, and what it probably means for the U.S. in the future.
Americans have a fascinating view of the world. When other nations get in the U.S.'s business, it's considered only proper and just that they be put in their place. Yet when the U.S. bombs a sovereign nation or goes to war in a distant land, Americans seem to think that the world should simply accept the benevolent motivations of the U.S. I happen to believe that, contra the blood for oil crowd, U.S. motivations generally are pretty good. But whether they are or not, the results are often mixed at best. Regardless of American intentions in Iraq, the situation on the ground there is a disaster right now, for example. And it should surprise no one that some Iraqis will blame the U.S. for what has happened to them and will be willing to act on that belief.
There is an unfortunate tendency among people to dismiss motivations they don't understand. So when Osama bin Laden cites the occupation of Andalusia as a motivation for his attacks on Spain, a lot of people shake their heads and assume the man is irrational. Maybe he is and maybe he isn't, but if he believes that the reconquista is a justification for attacking Spain, and he can find enough other people who believe that to make effective attacks against Spain, it doesn't really matter whether his reasoning makes sense to us or not. It is sufficient for him and his followers, and they're willing to kill for it.
Now we have a situation where the U.S. has, for many years, intervened in the Middle East. It doesn't matter to a lot of Arabs whether those interventions were justified and it doesn't matter what motivations underlaid them. All that matters is that they saw the U.S. come in, push people around, and humiliate Arabs, no small issue for an honor-shame culture. And so a nontrivial number of them have been radicalized enough to try and kill Americans to avenge these perceived slights. And when they do occasionally succeed, what does the U.S. do? It strikes back in such a manner as to radicalize still more enemies. I think the whole 'cycle of violence' concept is overrated in many quarters, but it this case I think there is some justice in it.
Any counterinsurgency fight lies mainly in the non-military realm. If the counterinsurgency focuses all its efforts on killing insurgents, it may be able to reduce the number of problems markedly, but it will not destroy the insurgency. The cause will still draw new followers to replace those lost, perhaps even more quickly than the counterinsurgent can kill them depending on how heavy handed they are. The COIN fight can only be ultimately won by addressing the root causes of the insurgency. For 30 years, the U.S. has attempted to fight a type of insurgency using strictly military means, and the results have been predictable.
Yet when Paul points out the plain facts, that while terrorist attacks are not justified, our actions can justify them in the eyes of our enemies, the audience wants to cheer Giuliani's robust defense of American blundering.
Are there people out there who hate America for its freedoms? Yes. Some Islamists look at the U.S. and are appalled by all they see. They would do anything to wipe the U.S. out. But their numbers are trivial. They can only strike at the U.S. by drawing on other grievances, the kind the U.S. keeps handing them.
I do not support an isolationist policy. But there is a gap between isolationism and sending American troops around the world on a regular basis to intervene in areas they're not wanted. Were the U.S. to stop throwing its military weight around the world on a regular basis, its leaders might be surprised to see how quickly the world demonstrated its appreciation by ratcheting down a lot of the anti-American rhetoric that stirs so many to act against U.S. interests. It wouldn't solve all the problems by any means; what solution would? But it's hard not to notice that countries like Japan and Switzerland are able to be economically and politically stable without throwing their military muscle around every few years.
But that prescription will never last as long as demagoguery like Giuliani's is preferred to reason and analysis.